Hiend Audio, DIY, Hi-Fi, Stereo, Electronics site, for lovers of high-fidelity music reproduction. High-End Vacuum Tubes. Silicon. Do-It-Yourself Audio Systems. Schematics: amplifiers, speakers, horns, CD, DAC. Circuits, Topologies, Acoustics, Cables, Speakers, Voltage Regulators, Equipment Upgrades, Modifications, Problems, Solutions, Tips, Tricks. ------ Dla pasjonatów Hiend Audio, najwyższej wierności odtwarzania muzyki na sprzęcie budowanym, modyfikowanym samemu. Wiedza: elektronika, układy lampowe i krzemowe, wzmacniacze, głośniki, kolumny, tuby, DAC, kable, DIY, porady, sztuczki, problemy, rozwiązania, tor audio.



Oct 15 2013

Print this Post

Cloverotron 4L

I am trying to imagine, how this plant would perform as a Hiend-Audio circuit …

Czterolistna Koniczyna - Four leaf Clover

hmmm ….

Czterolistna Koniczyna - Four leaf Clover

hmmm ….

Czterolistna Koniczyna - Four leaf

hmmm ….

Well, I think that this is what it would look like ….

Cloverotron V.1

Cloverotron V.1

At the heart of this topology is the Clover …. and hopefully a lucky one: the four leaf Clover: 4L.

Let’s call it the Cloverotron.   

Obviously, as for now, this circuit is only just but a hallucination, a pure fantasy, awaiting for your critical evaluation. It may be a diamond, but most probably – it may be a bummer. You tell Me.

A good starting point is to have a brief look at the heart of the Clover – which essentially is a doubled up Circlotron. Or depending how you look at it, something that resembles the capital Letter “H”, or an H-bar-otron, a circuit comprised of a balanced H-bridge that I was experimenting with some long long time ago. But that was powered from a fixed power supply (and not two floating ones).



Alas, old stuff. History.  At that time I got the impression that apart from burning money in the doubled up count of components – that there is no value added from such a scenario.

But the Cloverotron 4L – as being discussed here, uses Mosfets instead of triodes, and uses two floating, symmetrical power supplies (i.e.  with a “+”, a “float” and a “-”).  It may well be that the Cloverotron 4L is also a case of burning money on the extra, doubled up components, a scenario that shall in end effect not bring any significant advantage.  But unless one builds it and tests it – this remains a great unknown.

Why “Cloverotron” ?  Because it is a superposition of two independent Circlotrons, one working into the load “from the top” side of the load, whereas the other Circlotron, the lower one, is piggy-backed to the SAME load, working into this very same load from “bottom up”.  Each of the two Circlotrons has “two current circles” working against each other,  Hence, if we use a pair of two piggy-backed Circlotrons, the first one: based on n-mos devices, powered from respective positive halves of their floating symmetrical power supplies, and the second one: based on p-mos devices, powered from respective negative halves of their floating symmetrical power supplies,  (the two sets of +43V__0V__-43V batteries, for the sake of simplicity). If we consider that each Circlotron has two current circles working against each other, and that we have the Top n-mos Circlotron, and the Bottom p-mos Circlotron … we clearly see that we get a Clover shape, with FOUR Current Circles.

If for the sake of symbolism, let us analyse the “idle currents, or the DC working conditions. We represent the “Clockwise” currents with a “+” sign, and the “Anti-Clockwise” currents with a “-” sign, then the load  “L”  is surrounded / entangled in Four independent current circles, and they look like this:

“-”           “+”


“-”           “+”

The above relates to the “idle currents”  (DC balance).  We obviously hope that these currents all null themselves out.   (Special fine tuning of the mosfet biases is required).

But what about the AC conditions? If the left hand side branch receives a positive signal peak, and the right hand side branch receives the respective mirrored, negative signal peak, then the increases (“+”) or reductions (“-”) of momentous signal currents flowing through the load will look as follows:

“-”            “-”


“+”          “+”

Weird, but seems to be true. A totally different picture. So now, we actually have a NET CURRENT flowing through the load:

“-”            “-”


“+”           “+”

Now, due to this seemingly “inconsistent behavior” of the Clover – I am seriously hoping for a high linearity of the function of this architecture.  Please note that the upper deck is n-mos technology. The lower deck is p-mos technology.  Each has an equal share and participation in the fight for the net current flow through the Epicenter, i.e. through the LOAD. DC idle currents are evenly spread across both the n-mos as well as the p-mos technology.  AC signal currents are also evenly spread across both the n-mos as well as the p-mos technology.  Moreover, the AC current conditions are spread orthogonally to the DC current conditions.

Orthogonally, in the sense of a “right angle”.

The DC currents are playing “Vertically”.
But the AC currents are playing “Horizontally”.

This is important.  Why is it important?  Hard to explain. This is just my gut feeling. But trying to explain to you, why my guts feel that this IS important – is outside the scope of my capability.  Just a hunch.

To put this into perspective:  please keep in mind those two independent, criss-cross coupled feedback loops, via the two feedback capacitors, returning respective halves of the output signal into the LTP cathode degeneration resistors of the differential voltage amplifier of the input stage,  just to complete the picture.   And one other thing:  If you do NOT like capacitors in your feedback path – it should, theoretically, be possible to choose the individual resistors in such a manner so as to enable a direct galvanic, DC feedback from the outputs back to the cathodes of those input tubes.  Should be possible.   May require some tweaking of the Constant Current Sink at the foot of the LTP, so as to level out voltage potentials.

Just in case this topology indeed turns out to be a diamond, Let’s give it a name.  Let’s call this the Cloverotron 4L – v.1.0.    And indeed, if it Does turn out to be a diamond: (C)  zjj_wwa as of Hiend-Audio. 16.10.2013.     ….    Well, sort of ….

This concept of a Cloverotron 4L circuit – it would not come to “be” -  if not for extensive readings of, discussions with and/or brainstorming with:

a).  John Broskie, of www.tubecad.com,  especially with his recent spectacular piece:


… and all the rest of his Circlotron related stuff, that he has extensively analyzed within all those circlotron related entries. Especially his recent “Circlotron Puzzler” riddle with the doubled-up circlotron, which reminded me of the H-bar-otron.

b).  Father_PiO,  an active audiophile and DIY guy at www.audiostereo.pl – the father of a brilliant concept, where the Sum_of_all_non-linearities_yields_a_straight_wire_with_gain, a theory stating that the output stage, or actually, the whole signal path, from beginning to the end, should be as close to “PERFECT” and linear as possible, even WITHOUT the need to brush it up with a hide_all_the_imperfections_with_a_feedback_loop cover up strategy. The Sum_of_all_the_non_linearities_yields_a_straight_wire_with_gain concept is sort of like fighting fire with fire …. you USE the non-linearities of tubes to FIGHT the non-linearities of other tubes, and or other elements of the signal path.

c). Allan Kimmel – To which I address my great respects and thanks for his genius “Allan Kimmel Mu-Stage” – to which I relate to within the Long Tailed Pair, tubed, differential input section.

What is currently known for fact:  The pairing up of a triode, working in an SRPP or better configuration (such as the Allan Kimmel Mu-Stage, that is a high impedance, quasi-current-source and active load for the bottom triodes) together with Mosfets – this in itself performs  very favorably in SPICE simulations, as conducted by Father_PiO.   Mind you – the “simple” circlotron version.

Based on such good news, I take it a step further, and double up the circlotron, but with complementary p-mos (the lower deck) and n-mos (the upper deck) Mosfets.  These are driven from respective Allan Kimmel Mu Stages – provided for each side of the fully differential signal.

Each triode works with a constant current source, and constitute the Allan Kimmel Mu Follower stage. But Hey! There is a twist here.  Both Mu-Stages are strapped up together, as a Long Tailed Pair Differential amplifier.   Do your pick – as per your preference – use either an LTP resistor, or a Constant Current Sink.  Which is better? You tell me!  ( I would bet for the CCS ).

The low-impedance, wide-band-frequency-range output of the mu-followers is split-divided and fed into the respective gates of the Mosfets.  I hope that I did not mess up the concept with those lower-deck p-mos devices, devices which were, are and shall remain quite a bizarre thing for me, but hopefully I did not mess that up and have biased them correctly, polarity-wise.   Each Mosfet requires a regulated bias voltage source, something in the area of 3,45 Volts, with the capability of fine tuning the voltage being fed to the gate of each respective Mosfet (so as to achieve zero offset DC conditions on the speaker output terminals).   If I got it right, then the n-mos things get the “positive” bias, and the p-mos things get the “negative” bias. Correct ?

Please kindly comment on any and all errors within the presented concept.

Any suggestions as to how to refine this concept – kindly welcome.



Oh, and B.T.W. – I also have a riddle for you: Which is better a scenario?  The foot of the Pentode’s bias voltage divider, being the R26 (left side) and R34 (right side) should referenced to:

a). GROUND (as in the case of a normal Alan Kimmel Mu Stage), or rather to:

b). the cathode of it’s respective triode, just before the feedback resistors R12 (left side) and R13 (right side), prior the currents of both of the branches meet and together go into the sink of the LTP ?   ( .. implying feedback .. )

or … hmmm …  Ok, and now comes the really crazy one ….

c).  Same as b). above, but we take R26 (of the left side) and sink it to the **OPPOSITE**  branch and connect it with the R13 (right side), just prior to the point where the currents of both branches meet. Similarly, we would take R34 (of the right side) and sink it to the OPPOSITE branch and connect it with the R12 (left side), just prior to the point where the currents of both branches meet.   Yes. This would actually be positive feedback, triggering a higher output swing on the output caps of each of the mu-stages, implying possibly higher gain.  But then again, there is the AC coupled global  NFB from the source legs of the mosfets to this very same location.  Very interesting…..

The Continuation (Part II) to this article – is now available on the DIY section of www.monoandstereo.com.




P.S.  Last but not least, I would just like to mention, that I have some aliases to my hiend-audio.com site.  Any of the following links as below shall bring you to these pages: http://capacitorless.com 
http://currentdriven.com  http://diy-hi-fi.com http://diy-hi-fi.com.pl  http://diy-hi-fi.eu  http://diy-hi-fi.pl  http://hi-fi-diy.com  http://hi-fi-diy.com.pl  http://hi-fi-diy.eu  http://hi-fi-diy.pl  http://hiend-audio.com.pl  http://hiend-audio.eu  http://hiend-audio.pl  http://hiend-system.com  http://hiend-systems.com  http://hiendsystem.com  http://hiendsystems.com  http://highend-system.com
http://highend-systems.com  http://otlaudio.com  http://straightwiregain.com  http://transformerless.com  http://zjjaudio.com 

audio, DIY, hiend, audio-hiend, hiend-audio, HiEnd, diy, tube, tetrode, pentode, triode, tetroda, pentoda, trioda, hi-end, Hifi, HiFi, Hi-Fi, amp, amplifier, Amplifier, amplifiers, high-end, highend audio, highend-audio, audio highend, audio-highend, amps, analogowy, CD, DAC, digital Do-It-Yourself, Hi-End, hifi, hi-fi, transistor, diode, tranzystor, dioda, diody, kolumny, lampy, loudspeaker, Loudspeakers, music, napęd, odtwarzacz, player, preamp, preamplifier, przedwzmacniacz, reproduction, stereo, wzmacniacz, operacyjny, wzmacniacze, Amplifiers, Amps, analog, analogowo-cyfrowy, converter, cyfrowa, cyfrowe, cyfrowy, elektroda, elektrody, głośnik, głośnika, głośnikami, głośnikowe, głośnikowy, kolumna, lampowe, lampowy, listen, listening, muzyce, muzyka, muzykę, odtwarzanie, Op-Amp, Op-amps, Preamp, Preamplifier, preamplifiers, preamps, przedwzmacniacza, przedwzmacniacze, Przedwzmacniaczy signal, signal-path, speaker, speakers, sygnał, sygnały, system, valve, video, Wzmacniacz, wzmacniacza, wzmacniaczy, Yourself, analogowa, analogowe, analogowo, Audio, conversion, converters, diode, Diode, elektrod, elektrodach, elektrodami, głośnikach, głośniki, głośnikiem, głośnikom, głośników, głośnikowych, głośnikowymi, interconnect, kolumn, kolumną, kolumnach, konwerter, krzem, krzemowa, lamp, lampa, lampowa, MKP, MKT, muzyką, muzyki, op-amp, Opamps, pentod, pentoda, pentode, pentody, Preamplifiers, przewód, przewody, silicon, Stereo, sygnale, sygnałem, sygnałowi, sygnału, tranzystory, trioda, triode, Triody tube, tubes, valves, Wzmacniacze, ADC, Analogowo-Cyfrowy, Analogowy, cable, cables, dioda, electrolytic, elektrodą elektrodzie, elektrolit, elektrony, głośnikowa, głośnikowi, głośniku, interconnects, kabel, kable, kondensator, kondensatory, krzemem, krzemie, krzemowy, lampach, lampie, Lampy, Loudspeaker, loudspeakers, Napęd, Odtwarzacz, Opamp, operacyjne, operacyjny, opornik, opornika, oporników path, pentodach, Pentode, pentodom, Player, płytka, Preamps, Przedwzmacniacz, Przedwzmacniacze, Reproduction, resistor, resistors, rezystor, rezystora, Signal, słuchać, słuchanie, transistor, transistors, tranzystor, tranzystora, tranzystorowa, triodą, triodach, triodzie, Tubed, Analog, capacitor, Cyfrowa, Cyfrowe, Cyfrowy, diod, diodach, diody, electron, Elektroda, elektrodom, Elektrody, elektrolita, elektrolity, elektron, elektronami, elektronowe, elektronu, foliowe, foliowy, Głośnik, Głośnika, Głośnikach, Głośnikami, Głośniki, Głośników, Głośnikowe, Głośnikowy, ic, Kolumna, kolumnami, kolumnie, kolumnom, Kolumny, kondensatora, Konwerter, Krzem, krzemowe, Lampowe, Listen, Listening, Muzyce, Muzyka, Muzyką, Odtwarzanie, OpAmp opamp, operacyjnego, operacyjnemu, opornikach, opornikami, oporniki, opornikom, opornikowi, oporniku, PCB, Pentody, Przedwzmacniacza, przedwzmacniaczy, rezystorach, rezystorom, rezystorów, rezystory, ścieżka, Signal-path, Speaker, Speakers, srebrny srebro Sygnał, Sygnały, System, tranzystorem, tranzystorowe, tranzystorowy, triod, triodom, Valve, Video, Wzmacniacza, Wzmacniaczy, Analogowa, Analogowo, Analogowo-cyfrowy, capacitors, diodom, Elektrodach, Elektrodami, elektrolicie, elektrolitów, elektronów, elektronowy, Głośnikiem, Głośnikom, Głośnikowi, Głośnikowych, Głośniku, IC, Kolumn, Kolumną, Kolumnach, Kolumnami, kondensatorów, kondensatorze, krzemowej, krzemowych, krzemu, Lamp, Lampa, Lampowa, Lampowy, Muzykę, Muzyki, Op-amp, OpAmps, Oporniki, Pentod, Pentoda, pentody, pentodzie, polipropylene, polistyrene, Przewód, Przewody, Ścieżką, Ścieżkami, Silicon, Sygnale, Sygnałem, Sygnałowi, Sygnału, trace, Trioda, Triode, triody, Tube, Tubes, Valves, Cable, Cables, Dioda, Diody, diodzie, Electrolytic, Elektrod, Elektrodą Elektrodzie, Elektrolicie, Elektrolit, Elektrolita, elektrolitami, elektrolitowi, Głośnikowa, Kabel, Kable, kondensatorami, kondensatorem, kondensatorom, kondensatorowi, Kondensatory, Krzemem, Krzemie, Krzemowa, Lampach, Lampie, Operacyjne, Operacyjny, Opornik, Opornika, Oporników Path, Pentodach, Pentodom, Resistor, Resistors, Rezystor, Ścieżki, Słuchanie, Transistor, Transistors, Tranzystor, Triodą, Triodach, Triodzie, Tubed, .ape, .eac, .flac, amper, ape, Capacitor, Capacitors, Diod, Diodach, Diodom, Diodzie, drukowana, Drukowana, eac, Electron, Elektrodom, elektrolitach, Elektrolitach, Elektrolitami, Elektrolitów, Elektrolitowi, Elektrolity, Elektron, Elektronami, Elektronów, Elektronowe, Elektronowy, Elektronu, Elektrony, flac, Foliowe, Foliowy, Głośnikowymi, Interconnect, Interconnects, Kolumnie, Kolumnom, kondenastorach, Kondenastorach, Kondensator, Kondensatora, Kondensatorami, Kondensatorem, Kondensatorom, Kondensatorów, Kondensatorowi, Kondensatorze, Krzemowe, Krzemowej, Krzemowy, Krzemu, Operacyjnego, Operacyjnemu, Opornikach, Opornikami, Opornikom, Opornikowi, Oporniku, Pentodzie, Polipropylene, Polistyrene, Rezystora, Rezystorach, Rezystorom, Rezystorów, Rezystory, Ścieżka, Tranzystora, Tranzystorem, Tranzystorowa, Tranzystorowe, Tranzystorowy, Triod, Triodom, volt, wat, watt, wolt, voltage, current, voltage regulator, capacitance multiplier, gyrator, low-noise, high-voltage, HV, Salas, regulator, coupling, interstage, inter-stage, rectifier, prostownik, bridge, mostek, choke, dławik, transformer, transformator, transformers, transformatora, transformatory, dławiki, chokes, dławika, dławików, dławików, cyrklotron, circlotron, transil, transile, warystor, waricap, cyrklotron, circlotron, Futterman, SEPP, SE, PP, Single-Ended, Push-Pull, OTL, Output, Transformerless, Transformer-Less, WK, WA, Wspólna Katoda, Wspólna Anoda, Wtórnik Katodowy, Cathode Follower, Common Cathode, Emitter, Baza, Collector, Kolektor, Gate, Source, Drain, Ohm, Volt, Watt, Farad, microfarad, milifarad, Henry, Inductance, Indukcyjność, Capacity, Capacitance, Pojemność, Mosfet, Hexfet, Signal-path, ścieżka, sygnał, sygnału, sygnałowa, solder, tin, lut, lutowanie, spice, pspice, jfet, cmos, hexfet, pmos, nmos, bjt, bipolar, junction, n-mos, p-mos, gain, wzmocnienie,

Permanent link to this article: http://hiend-audio.com/2013/10/15/cloverotron/